Toktok bilong yusa:Wantok/ArchiveMattandrews

• Note: the following is the archive of the talk page for User:Mattandrews, my old account. To talk to me now, go to User talk:Wantok.
• Toksave: ananit yu painim ol toktok bilong User:Mattandrews, olpela yusa bilong mi. Sapos yu laik toktok long mi nau, yu mas go long User talk:Wantok.

Katowice - Poland

Can you translate article http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katowice to tpi.wiki tpi:Katowice? It's the short article about one of biggest polish cities. Thanks in advance.

greetings, pl:Wikipedysta:Herr Kriss, 10:52, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

• OK, that's done - just a very basic article now at Katowice. Mattandrews 12:30, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! 83.30.36.233 12:47, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Końskowola - Poland

Could you please write a stub http://tpi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ko%C5%84skowola - just a few sentences based on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ko%C5%84skowola ? Only 3-5 sentences enough. Please. 123owca321 11:40, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

• OK, that's done - a very short article is now at Końskowola. Mattandrews 12:31, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Reorganizing TPI Wikipedia and Wiktionary

A possible proposal to the WikiProject Melanesia group

For the past several weeks now I've been working on the TPI Wikipedia and Wiktionary, and have requested temporary sysop/administrator permissions to help me get the job of reorganizing and revitalizing the two Wikis done.  I'm putting together a proposal for the EN WikiProject Melanesia (of which you are a member) suggesting that a subpage to the main project page be added to discuss policy and direction ideas for the two TPI Wikis, i.e., "Wikipedia:WikiProject Melanesia / Tok Pisin".  I'll also be proposing two subpages to the Tok Pisin subpage, one for each of the two Wikis, i.e., "Tok Pisin / Wikipedia", and "Tok Pisin / Wiktionary".

• Agree with en:WikiProject Melanesia/Tok Pisin as a good place to kick off discussion. As soon as we have a decent core of active contributors/admins on the tpi sites, of course, the discussion should be on the actual tpi wikipedia/wiktionary rather than on en wikipedia. Mattandrews 03:30, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

What I visualize is therefore discussion page about Tok Pisin in general, and then two subpages where there can be discussion about the two Wikis editorial policies and orientation.  Given the target audience, I don't believe that at this initial stage of development it serves any purpose at all to have the TPI Wikipedia be a half-assed clone of the EN Wikipedia.  As I see it, the primary focus of the TPI Wikis should be (again at this stage of development) on Melanesia, and with an important, but secondary focus on the rest of Oceania and the Pacific Rim countries.  I feel that the rest of the world can wait (for the moment anyway), until the two Wikis are well organized and up and running.

• Melanesia is the obvious place to start in terms of improving coverage and quality, agreed; conversely, the actual audience for a tpi pedia is probably quite interested in things beyond the region, as well; and information about the rest of the world in tpi is lacking even more than tpi information about Melanesia. Mattandrews 03:30, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Proposed Board of Editors or Editorial Board

As part of getting the subpages set up, I'd also like to propose that an Editorial Board be set up where interested members of the Project Melanesia group would work together to, for a start anyway, (a) agree upon the expected target audience for the two Wikis, (b) agree upon the scope and objectives of the TPI Wikipedia, (c) agree upon the general editorial content, vocabulary level, word-spelling and amount of English code switching/swapping generally allowable in the TPI Wiki's articles.

• Makes sense. A lot to cover here, and it's crucial to get the basic policies done right. Mattandrews 03:30, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

My Objective

My objective is to tout a bilingual TPI Wikipedia, and a bilingual TPI Wiktionary.  My reasoning is that tok pisin since there's a sizeable amount of switching between English and tok pisin in written and conversational tok pisin, that the two bilingual Wikis would be much more helpful to the general public (either by direct Internet access, or from those who do). I think I'm right about this, but am I?

=== Bilingual Wikipedia and Wiktionary: Testing the concept Anyway, I've gone ahead and set up two psuedo-bilingual articles in this Wikipedia. One is "Papua Niugini" and it's English psuedo-equivalent at "Papua Niugini/English".  The other is "Niu Aialan Ailan and it's English psuedo-equivalant at "Niu Aialan Ailan/English".  Both the English articles are copies from the EN Wikipedia.  They both demonstrate what elements are missing in the TPI Wikipedia, and what needs to be done to make the interlinks viable. I'm using a standard subpage "/English" in each Tok Pisin article for the location of the English-language version of the TP article.

• I'm not at all convinced of this, to be honest. On the wikipedia, I don't really see the value of separate English versions of each article, other than perhaps to those learning Tok Pisin (or English). If anything English tends to be intermixed with tpi inline - a work or phrase added into a Tok Pisin sentence, where the Tok Pisin equivalent would be unworkably convoluted. Mattandrews 03:30, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

I've also tested making the TPI Wiktionary bilingual. That dictionary is virtually empty (but will soon be filled after I've finished the Tok Pisin to English dictionary I'm compiling from Mahalic's 1969 "Introduction .."), so I've used wanbel as my test word.  For the test I set up a page "Agreement" in the TPI Wiki and copied verbatim the definition from the EN Wiktionary.  In the definition for wanbel I set up two tables, one ostensibly for defining the word in Bislama, Motu/Hiri Moto, and another table for defining the word in contemporary and historically significant non-Melanesian languages (e.g., Bahasa Indonesia, Nederlans, Jerman, etc.).  The TPI dictionary is indeed bilingual; searching for either wanbel or agreement will bring up the appropriate page.  Further, both pages are interlinked, so switching between the two pages can be done quickly.

• I think we shouldn't be undertaking a bilingual dictionary ourselves, but making tpi work within the broader Wikimedia universal dictionary project (known as WiktionaryZ at one point - I must familiarise myself with where that project is at the moment). Also, there's a big question in my mind of the value of putting a lot of community effort into a tpi dictionary, when there is an existing broad community effort that has been happening for years under the Revising the Mihalic project (coordinated by a friend of mine, actually). That's a massive effort involving many linguists and others to bring the Mihalic up to date and expand it. If anything, it would be great to see the Revising the Mihalic project migrate itself to become the tpi Wiktionary, but I don't know if that's an option. Mattandrews 03:30, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

As an aside, I've also been working with the TPI Wikipedia's front page, which hadn't been updated in more than a year when I started working with it.  I haven't as yet been able to get "behind" the front page yet (don't have the required permissions), but I'm working on that.  On June 12th I submitted a request for temporary sysop/administrator privileges for the two Wiki's, but as yet there's been no action on my request. Anyway, what I've been doing is daily updates of the "Karen afeas" template using transcripts from the Radio Australia's Tok Pisin Internet service.  I've also been updating the "dispela wik" template with photos from the WikiCommons, since there are precious few TP articles (as yet) in the Wiki.  The combination of reading/copying/inserting/proofreading the Radio Australia articles, and listening/reading the ABC's "Time to Talk" articles has increased my understanding of Tok Pisin (along with my Mahalic dictionary work) to where I feel hesitant (but confident) to rewrite a few of the ABC's TP headlines.

Problems with the existing Wikis

The main problem I'm encountering with the existing TPI Wikis is that they are both in a rudimentary state, and very unorganized (especially the Categories).  I've found that none of the templates used are documented in the Wikipedia, and were most likely included by the system developer when the TPI Wikipedia was initially set up.  "Caffelice" very likely worked with the developer in the setting up, but documentation doesn't appear to have been their primary interest.  So right now there's a lot of template finding/documenting that needs to be done, in addition to writing and implementing new (translated) templates.

In Summary

My thinking is that you have an immediate and direct interest in Melanesia, that you have the necessary qualifications for adminship, and that you could provide some very needed input on the focus and direction of both Wikis.  One of the most valuable contributions I think you would make is to provide some ideas, based on your personal working knowledge, as to those outside the Wikipedia community could be brought in to provide advice and suggestions to the Editorial Board/Board of Editors if my proposal/suggestion is accepted by the Project group, as well as other suggestions that would greatly help to bring the TPI Wikipedia and Wiktionary up to a more professional level and standing.

I'm only an hour away by train from the PNG embassy in Washington.  I'll be calling them tomorrow (Friday, U.S. Eastern Daylight Time) to see if there's any information they might be able to provide that would be useful in upgrading the status of the two TPI Wikis.

That's all (for now, anyway). Thanks/very best regards, from Ken, Abingdon, Maryland K. Kellogg-Smith 05:13, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

• Many thanks indeed for kicking this off - long overdue and sorely needed. I'd be very glad to be part of the discussion and to take on an admin role (we need several admins I would think). Let's get the discussion going at WP Melanesia. Cheers, Mattandrews 03:30, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

• Matt, I think you particularly are a crucial part of this project, as you are the only active and experienced user I know of that toks tru pisin.

I think for this project to be a success, you will need to get it intergrated with schools and learning insitutions actually in PNG. I know Bduke is interested and was involved with UPNG. We should definately involve him in this. Aliasd 04:17, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

• OK, I've now copied this discussion to en:WikiProject_Melanesia/Tok_Pisin ... let's continue the discussion there. Mattandrews 06:46, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Melanesia box

Thanks for the translation.   Most appropriate. I rewrote the intraWiki link, eliminated the http:// stuff.  The intralink looks clean and neat now. Best regards, K. Kellogg-Smith 23:47, 14 July 2007 (UTC)